I'm going to include some excerpts from my commentary on a heated dispute between who would win between Superman and Goku. I believe it is a very culturally and racially charged debate, and that's part of the reason why it reveals so much. Apparently, it's been debated for years. Finally, a group of guys put a fake simulation together on Youtube. The problem with things like this is that algorithms should be used. When you are trying to account for several variables, a biased human is going to put together an animation where they have a winner in mind from the start. A simulation would have an unbiased computer monitor all factors and decide a winner, even factoring in chance. In my opinion, that's how debates like this should be settled.
The problem, is that honesty is hard when it comes to Superman. You see, he's a hero of Jewish origins, who has somehow come to symbolize "White Hope" over the years. Therefore, rather than be the symbol of hope he was meant to be, many openly refer to him as a god-like symbol, which reveals how they feel, not anything the comic itself infers. In his comics, he has lost. He has faced adversity. He has shown resilience and the ability to rise to the occasion, but he has even tasted death. Goku was a character that was created, and then adapted to fit the Japanese version of Superman. He has similar limits and accomplishments. A battle between these two would be epic, and very even. Rather than call that as it is, the 2 guys who did the video, referred to the energy blasts done in the Dragon Ball Z universe, as weightless air, when it levels mountains, and thus had Superman walk through it with ease. They also disregarded any inconvenient parts of the Canon including the power level system, referring to it as nonsense. Yet, they pull incongruent parts of Superman's story from every crevice to argue that he is stronger than infinity. The funny thing, is that several of the feats he accomplished were done either at the same time with assistance, or on separate occasions, by other heroes such as Wonder Woman and Thor.
Goku's son Gohan, performed a kamehameha strong enough to disintegrate the villain, "Cell," in Dragon Ball Z. Cell was strong enough to destroy the planet earth, and threatened to do so several times. Vegeta almost destroyed Majin Buu, who was several times as strong as that. And they are arguing that Superman would easily crush and walk through a Goku, who is dozens of times stronger than that generation of DBZ, and infused with the power of a celestial being. It speaks for itself. In the end, all reason and ration is thrown into the garbage, when racial pride is on the line.
These are the excerpts from my discussions:
A lot of people think they know Superman through and through, but aren't aware that he does have limits. In Superman Exile, those limits were tested. In comparing Goku, from what I've seen, that entire universe is capable of destruction on a higher level. This episode hurts the credibility of the series. It has nothing to do with being a fan, this battle just looks like typical Western bigotry at it's finest.
Example.Do you recall that he- Superman raced the Flash at top speed and lost by a narrow margin on more than one occasion I believe. Yet he travels, when convenient, 25 light years in a few minutes in another recent comic book. Any idiot can see that there's picking and choosing when it comes to Superman. His comic has long had the issue of adjusting to whatever allows him to dominate. If you went by the same inconsistencies, Goku would have no limits. He wouldn't even need his "god" mode. He's performed feats without thinking, that have taken extreme effort from Superman. Superman also needed to wear a mask in his Exile comic, as he was traveling from planet to planet, losing fights along the way. You can call me a fanboy, but when it comes to Superman, for some reason, you people are all something even worse.
Another example is the fact that you guys choose the "Canon" that fits your argument, yet call the power levels of the DBZ Canon- nonsense. It speaks for itself. I was hoping stupidity would get in the way of actually solving the debate. so much for that
It takes simple sense to see that. Not only Superman and DBZ, but most comics are constantly pushing the limits further and further, contradicting previous issues. Nobody does it like Superman. Then when something shows him being weaker, it's dismissed as a spin off that doesn't count by someone saying exactly what you are. If you remember in DBZ, there were times that Saiyans flew and battled in outerspace. And there were times when Superman wasn't able to comfortably do that. And the bottom line is that he HAS lost. The fact that they refute that speaks volumes in itself. I've always seen him and Goku as unkillable, so while I don't dispute Superman winning, I don't think it would have been like that, and there is also no factual proof at all that Superman would walk through a Kamehameha that would level several mountains, when he's been moved by Batman punches.
The episode reaches, and is one sided. I actually wasn't even expecting the SSGSS Goku at all. Regular Goku has done feats that are parallel to Superman. Both have died. If anything, to proportionately translate what Goku would be with his power multiplied that many times, it would be impossible for anyone to walk through him. The Hulk, Captain America, Thor, and all of these others have stood with and given problems to Superman, even with some of them beating him at times. If any of those other heroes, including Wonder woman, were to face Goku, you would all be shouting that he would decimate them, which would show that you elevate Superman for no good reason.
It shows that they have little regard for Anime. They seemed to be comparing the Kamehameha to flames, when it is solid force.
He did not beat the Hulk handily, because while he is strong, his strength is not as limitless as the Hulk's is. If you read, you'd know that.
And for a laugh- Goku once punched a mountain, and lifted it up with his hand casually. Let's forget about the SSJ Goku who destroyed mountains like paper during combat, and did destroy planets. You honestly can't see where the dismissal is of DBZ abilities? Even reading and watching DBZ years ago, as many of you refuse to, we used to wonder how normal people could fight them because they were on such a ridiculous level, capable of destroying cities in moments. Superman has tangled with humans, tediously, and while he is destructive, he has never destroyed such vast landscapes as quickly as they do in DBZ. And let's not forget, they're choosing the SSJGSSJ form for whatever reason. It's easy to see things the way you are when you solely focused in on the Superman comics where he holds limitless pages, and contains infinity. Those are story progressing Canon. If they're going to mindlessly apply that to combat, we would have to go on forever adding in feats from DBZ as well.
Anyone neutral introduced to both universes, would see the difference in power scale of the two. Superman is a symbol of hope who overcomes, in the eyes of readers and fans alike. He's only an unbeatable god-like symbol in the eyes of biased and jaded people who need him to be that. People like that have no place in this debate or doing a battle video.
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